Planning Your Travel Itinerary and Getting Free Travel Using Credit Card Points

Sneak Peek:

KT   People are different. People travel different. So what you find on the internet, you  

Jordan:  Know, Or even from your friends, right? Like, do we like the same things? 

KT:    Yeah. Or do you wanna replicate your friend's trip? Maybe you wanna find something new, You wanna find something that's more you?  

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.  

Kristin Wilson, Host:  Hey there, Kristin, from Traveling with Kristin here and welcome to episode 164 of Badass Digital Nomads. My guests today are KT and Jordan Morgan, who are the co-founders of a travel app called On Arrival that gives you personalized, curated travel recommendations for short term weekend trips or longer term weekly and monthly trips anywhere in the world. Originally from Michigan, Jordan and KT have been traveling the world together for more than 10 years. Jordan is a professional basketball player based in Europe, and KT has a master's degree in marketing and is an entrepreneur, property manager and voiceover artist for Alpha Romeo. For today's interview, KT and Jordan we're calling in from their summertime home base here stateside in Michigan, but they spend most of the year in Europe. In today's interview, they share with us a lot of their tips from living as expats for the past 10 years.  

Kristin:  And they also get into detail with some of the tactics and strategies that you can use to save money and get free travel worldwide using travel credit cards and frequent flyer miles and points. I had such a great interview with KT and Jordan today. Like many of you, I feel like they were friends I hadn't met in real life yet. And when you're listening to this interview, the week this interview goes live, I'll be on my first ever trip to Istanbul Turkey with the team from Safety Wing, my favorite travel insurance company. You can support the podcast and get super affordable travel and remote health insurance anywhere in the world by using our link in the show notes. And I'm extra excited for this trip because Jordan and KT have also handpicked travel recommendations for me for the first few days of my trip before I meet up with the Safety Wing team, you can have them help you plan your next trip for only $20 or $40 using their On Arrival app.  

On Arrival

Kristin:    And they're offering Badass Digital Nomas listeners, a 25% off discount by using the coupon code BADASS at checkout on onarrival.com. That's O N A R R I V A L.com. So sit back, relax, walk, drive, take notes, whatever you're doing today and enjoy this conversation with KT and Jordan.

Podcast Interview:

Kristin: Well KT, I was just telling Jordan that, um, I'm going to Turkey in July and um, he's like, Oh, we have to make a guide for you. And I was saying that I just sent my mom your website because she's planning a trip to Europe. Yeah. And she works full-time still. She's not retired yet. And my dad is retired, but he's like, you know, he's not doing it. And so I told her on the phone, I'm like, If you don't plan this trip, my dad's gonna just take you to all the car museums in Europe, <laugh>, and you're not gonna have a choice. So I sent her, uh, your website so she can get some recommendations cuz like she knows she never has time. I mean, who does, who really has time to plan a trip? Nobody,  

Jordan:    Especially nowadays, and we can talk about this in the interview, but it's so hard now and I, you know, we feel now more than ever it's so important to plan because you know, we've been planning, you know, putting together guys for people and things are so booked up this summer because so many people are traveling. You know, you still have some kind of space constraints in certain places, but the demand for travel is so high. We really feel like if you don't plan ahead of time, you're not gonna have the best experience. Yeah,  

Kristin:   Yeah. I heard it's called revenge travel, where people are like planning their trips and they're spending a lot of money cuz they haven't traveled in a while.  

Jordan:    Right, exactly. Yeah. So yeah. And then the age we live in with like social media and stuff, everybody kind of wants to go to the same places. So like if it's a good place, like it's probably got some, you know, it's probably got a long line of people ready to go there.  

Kristin:      Yeah.  

Jordan:     What, uh, where is your mom going? Um, for in Europe,  

Kristin:      They're going to England.  

Jordan:     Oh, nice.  

KT:    So that's probably in your realm. Yeah, yeah. In your range of expertise. <laugh>, Yes.

Kristin:  Yeah. People that are working full time and or even retired, it's like on one hand people don't really have time, extra time for anything. And then on the other it's really, it's overwhelming when you start to plan a trip and even when you wanna choose a country, I mean, my mom and dad were asking me for the past two months, like, which country should they go to in Europe? And so once you even choose a country and then the cities and then the things to do, Yeah. It, it's been, it's it's very time consuming. We'll talk about that a bit at the end, but, well, let's go back a little bit to the beginning. Um, when we first started chatting today, you guys said that you are in your home base right now in Michigan. Did you say Ann Arbor?  

KT:    Yes. Yes. We both went to school in Ann Arbor and it's ever since it's kind of been our home base when we're not traveling.  

Jordan:    Yeah. As a professional basketball player, I usually am gone from August to June. So that gives us kind of the ideal months to be in Michigan and to be in Ann Arbor like June, July, August. So that's usually kind of where we spend that two to three months here  

KT:   And then we skip the winters <laugh>. Yeah,  

Jordan:   Exactly.  

Kristin:    Yeah. Um, I was just in Chicago and it was amazing weather and you know, they're two month per year summer, so pretty Right. Pretty similar to Michigan and I met a lot of Michigans over there, but yeah, the last time I was there it was a frozen tundra that looked like something out of Game of Thrones and yeah, I would not wanna live there during that time. So I think you have the, uh, ideal situation there and then how you guys meet. Did you meet in college?  

Jordan:    We have a very cliche, like how did you meet story <laugh>? We met on the, the middle of campus on the, the, what's called the diag at the University of Michigan. It's like the most famous little,  

KT:  Uh, area. <laugh>.  

Jordan:   Yeah. Famous little courtyard. And we met there on the diag the start of our senior years and we kind of spent our whole senior years, you know, dating and then we started this, after that we started our worldwide adventure together. So yeah.  

Kristin:    Was it like love at first sight?  

KT:   Actually, it's really funny because I was there to watch myself in a commercial that was airing on the diag. So I had brought my mom and my friend with me and I actually used to date her brother. So she was like, Oh my gosh, isn't that guy on stage cute? Because he was MCing the event. And I was like, Yeah. She's like, I dare you to go take a photo with him after. And I was like, Okay, whatever. So after the event, I ended up missing my commercial. I never got to see it <laugh>. Um, but I got to take a photo with Jordan and after that my friend was like, Oh, I'm so mad that I introduced you guys. I think you're gonna get married, You're not gonna marry my brother. And I was like, Oh no. Like there's no way. And we ended up leaving the event and ran into Jordan and he asked her my number and then yeah, the rest is history  

Jordan:    Then it came true. Yeah. <laugh>. Wow. We're lucky We have a, a photo too. From the first time we met we talked about how many people actually have that. We took a photo like the, the very first time we met. So that was kind of cool.  

Kristin:    Right. Yeah, that is cool. And, and then you had, I saw on Instagram that you had your engagement in Paris in front of the Eiffel Tower, which is like also the most cliche in the best way. <laugh> like I always say that Paris is a living cliche, but I love it. Like I'm so here for it. It's, it's everything that you think it's going to be, you know, the poodles, the croissants, like all this stuff and it's just so magical. So yeah, tell us a little bit about that, um, engagement, cuz it really, it looked perfect.  

Jordan:   <laugh>, I'm a hu I'm a, a huge Paris fan, so I love Paris.  

KT:    He speaks French. He, he just loves everything about France.  

Jordan:   <laugh>, we also talked about that to your point like a few weeks ago. People give other travelers a hard ti time about doing the tourists to your cliche things. And we are like, we're all for it, you know, we love to do that. So, you know, I set the, the engagement up. We actually had a weekend in Paris. I was playing in France at the time in the city a few hours away, and we were supposed to go to dinner and I had set it up so that there was a photographer kind of waiting for us at that spot. I, I, you know, I knew, I said, Hey, you wanna take a photo here? Knowing, you know, knowing her, she's like, Yeah, definitely. You know, so  

KT:  I never turned down a photo    <laugh>  

Kristin:  You're the perfect Instagram husband too.  

Jordan: My gosh. That's a whole episode we could talk about. But you know, long story short, I I was ready for the moment and, and I, you know, while I had her in position just, you know, pop the question photographer was ready. So we were able to kind of capture that moment. So that was really cool.  

Kristin:  And the weather looked perfect too.  

KT:    It really was the perfect day. Yeah. And it's so funny because we went shopping on the  Champs-Élysées day earlier and I was like, Oh, for the outfit I was gonna wear tonight, like, I forgot my shoes. And he's like, Well, let's buy new ones. And I was like, Oh, okay. So I got new shoes and then I was gonna change into a different outfit, but we took a nap like midday and Jordan kept saying to me like, Don't you wanna change into the outfit? Don't you wanna change? And I was like, Nah. I was like, this is fine, I'll just wear what I was like napping in. But it was already pretty dressy from the day anyways. It was just, it turned out to be perfect. The photographer really captured the moment and it was cliche, but in the best way, like you said. Yeah.  

Kristin:    I, I want my future husband to take notes of of where you can propose to me. Um, actually at night it's so pretty too with the lights, but I think the photos wouldn't be as good. Like, I think he had it at the golden hour and, uh, one of my best friends just got married this year and her husband proposed at Lake Como <laugh> in Italy at Lake Sunset. And the photos were beautiful too. So I think, yeah, Paris and Italy are, are definitely good places to um, go on your honeymoon or, or get engaged and, and yeah, I can't think of a really, a more romantic place. Like even the bridge and you know, just walking around the  Champs-Élysées, it's really out of a kind of like storybook or Yeah a dream. sometimes I'm like, I can't believe people live here. Like it's so, it's so magical. I mean it wasn't always that way. Paris used to be a little bit of a, you know, a couple hundred years ago maybe wasn't so beautiful, but now it is.  

KT:    Yeah. And I think that's something we've been really blessed to both live in Paris because he ended up playing for Paris that same year. And then also we've lived in Italy two seasons. So every time I'm there it is like, you have to pinch yourself because you're like, it looks so perfect. Like every turn you take is so picturesque. Yeah. And I mean I'm really grateful for that experience that we've been able to live in both of those countries.  

Kristin:    Yeah. I have so many photos of just build like random buildings and flower pots and like <laugh>, things like that cuz everything just looks so pretty. Um, and, and you guys have been to a lot of different countries, so, well Jordan, you, you are a basketball player, you still are a basketball player. And then KT what a cool job you have as, are you still working for Alpha Romeo?  

KT:    Yeah, so, um, I've been working for Alpha Romeo for quite a few years and it really has been the perfect situation because I travel the auto show circuit with them and I travel the US while Jordan's overseas, um, traveling. And it's been really fun to kind of, I think I've been to probably more US for sure, more states than you a hundred percent. But he's been to a bunch of different countries more than me. But yeah, that's really fun. And it works out because before we started On Arrival, I was able to come home for a few months, work a few auto shows, and then fly back to Turkey or wherever he was. And then I also got my master's degree online, so I was able to travel with him for two and a half years that I was doing that. So, uh, we find ways to make it work at this point we're together, he's stuck with me like glue <laugh>, lucky him. But yeah, we, we've done the long distance thing and we make it  work. 

Kristin: So you travel together, you work together, you live together, work together, together. I did that before and it worked out pretty well. But do you have any kind of tips or advice for other couples that are traveling together?  

Jordan:    Yeah, I think since starting On Arrival, the one thing we've learned when, now that we actually work together on, on this company we're starting is that we've now like had to intentionally carve out times for ourselves. So it's important to maintain, you know, your own identity and your relationship. So making time for friends, making time for yourself, You know, sometimes we have days where we're just like, I don't wanna see you today. You know, it's like I, I've seen enough of you for a month straight. Like I need a day. Like, leave me alone. Like, not in a bad way, but I mean it's healthy, right? You need, you need that space. So we've, we've had to learn that kind of, and find that balance now that we actually are working together all the time. 

KT:    Yeah, I would say like my big thing is I love to listen to podcasts and go on walks. Like that's when I like chill out and Jordan's like not really interested in that. Um, so we, I'm just like, hey, I'm gonna take time to do me, you do you today. Um, and then also I think something that helps me when I'm overseas, like creating a schedule for Monday through Friday, like I'm going to work has helped me for completing my masters as well as the business now. So just creating that schedule cuz otherwise like you can catch yourself sleeping until 12 and just like, wait, what day, what day is it? So I like to create some structure in my days.  

Kristin:    Yeah, I saw that on your Instagram of why you should have a travel schedule. Can you tell us a little bit about how you have yours arranged and what you would recommend for people to keep in mind when they're making their own schedules?

KT:   For guides? Or  

Kristin:    Like your daily routine while  

Jordan:  You're traveling. 

KT: Oh, while I'm traveling. Okay. Yeah. So, um, you know, Monday through Friday I like to wake up early. I go to the gym every other day. This is speaking from specifically like our time in Venice, Italy where we spent the last six months. And then I work on, On Arrival in the morning because I work best in the morning and Jordan actually works best at night. So there's another difference you have, you have between us. So I work on, On Arrival and then, um, we also manage other things. We have properties in Ann Arbor, so I work on like things for that in the afternoon. And then I like to kind of set a schedule where it's like five o'clock I'm done. And I think we can both say that that really hasn't been put into place yet, but that's like the goal is to be done by five, six o'clock. It does make it a little difficult. Uh, when we were in the startup incubator, we had class at 11:00 PM <laugh>. Yeah. That made it difficult as well as, like I said, Jordan like likes to work on, On Arrival at night. Yeah. So yeah, we, we try to make that work, but it's still a work in progress.  

Kristin:    So you're an early bird and a night owl  

Jordan:   <laugh>. Yes. Yeah. It's a tough combo.  

Kristin:    And then do you have to train during the day?  

Jordan:    Yeah, so for me, I have less control over my schedule when I'm in season. So whenever we're, you know, out of the country I'm usually like a, you know, a victim to whatever my schedule is. So game schedule, practice schedule, most times you can count on having practice in the afternoon. So sometime around five o'clock I overseas it's harder to get up early. So when I'm in America I actually like to get up early. But like overseas it's different because because we're talking and dealing with people from back home, we find ourselves staying up later when we're there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like she mentioned having class at five at 11:00 PM It's really a five o'clock class in the US but we're we're attending virtually so we have to stay up till it's from before. Some of our classes we're going to like 2:00 AM or something like that.  

So that means that when we're overseas we're staying up later. So I don't typically get up as early when, when I am overseas I'm usually getting up around like maybe nine o'clock versus when I'm home I wanna be up at like 6, 6 30. The nice thing about being home at in America is I do control my training schedule. So I like to, to, when I'm home, I'm trying to train as much as possible in the morning. And then like she mentioned, my afternoons or even evenings I spend working versus overseas. I actually do work a little bit more during the day because I might not have anything until five o'clock. So I work during the day and then practice and then I will probably work a little bit more after dinner just because I feel I'm usually, my brain's working really well at night so he  

KT:    Never stops <laugh>. 

Kristin: Yeah. That's really important uh, for people to keep in mind because like, I like having kind of slow mornings but I also like waking up early. So I like being in Europe because I can have a leisurely day before people in North America wake up. Yeah. But you also do end up staying up later and I can remember some nights working till three in the morning and Yeah. And then you, especially in the winter, you kind of like miss the whole day cuz if you sleep in late then the sun's already going down. Yeah, yeah. By like noon it's, it feels like 4:00 PM Yeah. And that can get a little bit depressing. So that's something for people to keep in mind when they're making their schedules, but also we're, you know, we're humans and we're adaptable. So I, I always find it really difficult when I'm in California because I feel like I have to wake up at like four in the morning to get anything done and like have my daily like morning routine before I start working. Cuz you wake up three hours behind New York and like, you know, like 10 hours behind Europe. Yeah. So it's just, yeah, that's tough. Hundred percent for people over there. And so how many year or how many months per year are you in the US and then in Europe?  

Jordan:    So it's usually like for me, so she'll go back and forth a lot more. Um, so there's times where she'll go home for two months and you know, in the middle of the season. But for me I'm usually gone for at a minimum of nine months. But sometimes it's as long as 10 months, usually leaving around August 15th, getting back sometime around the, you know, June 1st, May maybe later depending on like playoffs and things like that. So when I'm home it's usually two, two and a half, three months, like maximum that I’m home.  

KT:  in the summer. 

Kristin: Yeah. And then do you have one home base per year in Europe and can you choose wherever that is? Or do you just move around with the schedule?  

Jordan:   That's the interesting thing actually. I am going into my ninth season and it's been nine seasons with nine 10 different teams. So, um, it has been different every year. I've only gone back to the same country even once, you know, back to back season. So it's been, you know, it was Italy, France, Greece, Slovenia, Turkey, Turkey again, then Russia, then Italy, and now we're going back to Turkey this year. So it's, it is a, a bit of a musical cheers kind of situation and you never know, it's, that's always the funny thing when we come home in the summer. So, you know, I talk about that summer coming home when we come home in the summer, we have no idea where we'll end up next. We just know kind of approximately when we'll leave again  

Kristin:    When, what is your favorite country that you've lived in? I know you've been to like 50 or so countries combined, but

KT:   For me personally, I'm Italian and I just have a special place in my heart for Italy. Like being in Venice, being in the number one tourist attraction in Europe and creating, um, you know, a travel company was really a dream for me. We really, we really enjoyed it. I was learning Italian and you know, drinking coffee every day and just really getting involved in the coffee culture. I love that. So it was just like vacation for me. <laugh>.  

Jordan:    Yeah. I would say I'm, I'm Slovenia now so I kind of have to say I, I did love, I do love Slovenia and, and it's really an underrated country that is such a beautiful place to live in the capital city. Lian is clean, it was the green capital of the eu. It's super clean, walk, walkable downtown, like no cars downtown and the right in the center  

KT:    We always say it's like the best kept secret Slovenia is.  

Jordan:   And the cool thing about, the cool thing about Venia too is that you can get anywhere in an hour. So you could go to the mountains, you can go to like a lake, you could go to the seaside city, everything within an hour. And it's the most beautiful landscape. So it's really an underrated country.  

Kristin:    Maybe that's where I'll go this year cuz I'm not sure exactly where I'm gonna set up my home base in Europe, but I know I'm gonna go back in August or September. And did you say that you got citizenship there?  

Jordan:    Yeah, so I did.  

Kristin:     How did that work?  

Jordan:    So yeah, a couple years ago I was approached to play for the national team there. So after I had played, I had played one season there at for clubs. So imagine many Americans like might not understand this, but it's like playing for the Detroit Pistons versus playing for Team usa. So I was at the time playing for the club team, which was Olympia, which would be like the Detroit Pistons. And then I was approached to play for the national team, which would be like Team usa. So I actually played um, games with Team Slovenia and some of the Fiba games and things like that. So they naturalized me to become part of that team. So I had now have Slovenian citizenship for life, which is really cool. It's a European passport, so it's EU passport. It's nice when I try why I use that. So I don't really even, I'm like in and outta every border, it's really easy  

KT:    He leaves me behind, you know, with my US passport and he just cuts the line with his European  

Kristin:  Can you get Yeah, exactly. Uh, can you get citizenship too since you're married?  

KT:    Yeah, so I believe I have to wait five years and then I get the citizenship as well. So right now we're in a space where we love America, we love our home, but we also are like, eh, maybe we'll live in Europe so we'll see.  

Kristin:    Yeah, I think it's a little bit of a balance. Like I've been here now for over two years and I just really miss the lifestyle in Europe, so Yeah. And it really doesn't matter which country. I think it's just like a general cultural lifestyle, societal, collective thing that I just really enjoy no matter which country I'm in. 

Jordan: Yeah,   I  agree with that. 

Kristin: Northern eastern Mediterranean, wherever.  

Jordan:    Yeah, I, I agree like the communal, like there's just a value for like community that you find over there and I, you know, when we were home for a prolonged period last year that I was feeling the same way. I was just kinda like, man, I missed that culture. America's cool, like you can get anything from Amazon today. Right. Like that's the cool part. Yeah. But it's also like there's just a certain, you have to, you have to live it and experience it to really know like what's so different about living in Europe, Like the people are just, and the culture so, so different. 

Kristin:    Yeah. It's really hard to put your finger on just one thing. And I think maybe Europeans would laugh at us because a lot of them, you know, they like to travel too and they like to go to wherever in Asia and places that are really different from Europe and we're all like, we wanna go there and you know, I guess the grass is always greener. But no, there's definitely something about it and also something going on in the US I mean, multiple things going on. It's not a political conversation, you know, political podcast. But like just yesterday I was eating dinner and I overheard the table behind me. I know, it's so interesting cuz we're in Miami so they were speaking in Spanish and English and they were probably like five or six people and they were all from different countries, but I could tell they had been living here for a really long time and I think a few of them were from the US from their accents and um, they were just talking about like how messed up things are here. Yeah. And, and one of them said like that it doesn't even make sense to live in this country anymore. And they were immigrants and they were like, what am I even doing here now? Like the way that this country is run and the way it's organized just like doesn't even make sense. And then they would like kind of go in and out of, I couldn't really hear cuz like the music, but I just caught some pieces of it and I was like, Wow, how interesting that I happen to be sitting behind them and you know me with and  

KT:   and  you do what you do. 

Kristin:   Yeah. So I think there's definitely that palpable sense of, I don't know, like dis –discomfort and like not in a good way and like tension and like a little bit of animosity about the way that things have kind of unfolded and you know, there's still so many good things about the US but yeah, my friends and I have kind of been talking about like, you know, do we try to stay and like make a positive difference in this country or do we just continue living our best lives? <laugh>,  

KT:    Exactly. We are contemplating the same thing. And I think something that I always try to do when I am living abroad is become friends with, whether it be wives on the team, girlfriends or just locals in the community. And over the years it's really interesting to hear how they perceive the US and they are just really in disbelief of the things that happen here.  

Kristin:    So they've been living over there for a while.  

KT:   Yeah. Like  

Jordan:  these are, these are European  

Kristin: or locals?  

KT:    Locals, Yeah. So just really shocked about, you know, the gun controversy, controversy or um, you know, the mass mandates, how, you know, a lot of people in America I think think of themselves where a lot of Europeans think of more of that community. So they're like, of course I would do that. And not that there's not pushback there as well, but I think they're just kind of in awe of the things that are happening in our country. Yeah. And they, they wanna know more. Like, I remember last year in Russia we were talking about insurance, Right. Which all Europeans are like, they think the prices are crazy. And I was at a table of a bunch of girls and they were like, tell everyone how much you pay for insurance. Like, it was like the talking point of the table and it was like, they're like, oh my gosh. Like they were in on, it's things that are normal for us here just aren't normal for them.  

Kristin:    Yeah. Yeah. Like the price of insurance here is the monthly salary, like average salary in many countries in Europe. And That's crazy.  

Jordan:    Yeah. It, it's crazy. And I think, you know, when you talk about just talking to locals and we've been, we've been doing this for almost a decade now, traveling and living abroad. So it's, we've seen a noticeable difference in how people look at the United States and you know, not to get, like you said, not to get super political, but it just feels different. It feels different.  

KT:    Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, 

Kristin: how do you, do you feel like you're a citizen of any one particular country? I mean you hold two passports, the US and Slovenia. Do you feel like there's any specific country that you feel a special affinity for that like you live there and do you kind of feel like a partial US citizen now that you've spent a decade pretty much living abroad?  

Jordan:    I feel much less attached to like the United States or like the, like I feel much less like I have to stay here. Um, and like to your point and you talk about it, you know, you just talked about it. Do I stay and fight what feels like an uphill battle on things that seem like they shouldn't be such a complicated topic? Or do I just like go somewhere else where things make a little bit more sense and you know, if anything, you know, there are places that I have really, you know, very fond, you know, memories and very, you know, very close ties with like Slovenia for example, even Turkey that we really love Turkey, 

KT: we  love Turkey.  

Jordan:    Um, you know, those are really special places for us. But I think more than anything, just having, you know, now this citizenship and having lived abroad less, I feel I feel less attached to a specific country and more free to choose, you know, I don't have to feel attached to any one place.  

Kristin:    Yeah. So that's such a, a palpable level of freedom that I think more and more people are starting to experience. And it's, I don't even know if there's a name for it. I mean it's just like this kind of free but detached, like stateless but yet connected feeling like where you just feel like a part of the world and like the part of this global community and you feel like you can fit in anywhere even when it doesn't seem to make sense on paper. Like you wouldn't think that Oh yeah. A couple, you know, from Michigan who we have um, Miss America contestant and a pro basketball player like feel really at home living in Turkey in a town that I've never heard of. Um, but yet that's just how it is. And I think the more people that experience that, the happier we will all be because there's kind of this just sense of belonging anywhere that you go that doesn't have to deal with a flag Or a pledge of allegiance to some state. And maybe that's how it's supposed to be.  

Jordan:  Yeah. Yeah. I agree. 

KT: I I love that 

Jordan: we're all, we're all human, right? And  We, we gotta remember that first.  

Kristin:    Yeah. Amazing. Well, let's talk a little bit about some of the, uh, tactical ways that you guys have been able to travel on the cheap. This is a topic that we really haven't covered much on my podcast, but it's something that, that everybody's really interested in and it's something that I engage in myself and I know that you guys have a lot of experience with this and that is credit card points and travel hacking 

Jordan: free money. 

Kristin: Yes. Free money. And, you know, I'm not an expert in this, but I think I've done a pretty good job. I, I typically save around, I would estimate at one point around 10 or $15,000 a year in value that I would get for free Yeah. From using points. And just last weekend I had a free, pretty much a free flight to Chicago round trip and two free nights in a hotel at the W and city center. And then I was at this like baby shower and this, these parties that had like, everything included. I'm like, I basically spent a hundred dollars the whole weekend Yeah. And had like this really nice experience. So how long have you guys been leveraging credit card points and um, what are some of the kind of starter tips that you would recommend for people who are new to this and, and what are the, the value and the, the benefits that they can get from it? 

KT: Just to start off, I just wanna put it out there that Jordan calls me Penny because he thinks I'm really cheap or something. 

Jordan: She is really cheap. 

KT: I'm always looking for ways to save. And that's why I think we are the perfect team specifically when it becomes to travel because Jordan is like the points King. So I'll kind of let him take it away.  

Jordan:    Yeah, I think so we, like, I, we first dipped our toe into like travel points. It must have been like 2015. And I remember getting a city prestige cars and getting a sign up bonus and I was lucky enough that my, when my aunt, she's like, she might, she might be the expert, like she's got it down to a science where she's like, she's like, Yeah, I'm getting this bonus and then I'm gonna go get gift cards at the grocery store. She's like over the top. Right. So like we don't do that. We just like, what we do is we um, I have two cards that I primarily love. So my American Express Platinum card and my Marriott credit cards. I have two actually, but I use my Chase Marriott like every day because we love Marriott. So the W Chicago great, like love that.  

we're huge W fans, huge Marriott fans. We just had two free nights and uh, and a, a Renaissance hotel. But we've done some really cool things. Last year for example, we did a road trip through California and we flew into San Diego, we used Delta, we have Delta credit cards. So I think it's like a hundred dollars a year. It's probably more, I think it's 1 25 now. but you get a companion ticket every year. So we use the companion tickets to get a two for one flight basically to San Diego. We used American Express points to get the rental car. We had 12 nights in California. Of those 12, nine were free with, eight of those were Marriott hotels. So that was eight nights free, including one night at the Ritz Carlton and Santa Barbara, which was like 2000 and night. And we like used like 70,000 points. So it was like a great redemption. Yeah. Um,  

KT:    If you ever get a chance to go to that hotel, it's like it was rare. Use your points and spend it on that. It's totally worth it.  

Jordan:    It was a great redemption. By the way though Marriott is changing the redemption structure, so it's, you might not find that deal anymore. And we use some Hilton points to stay at, uh, the hotel in Monterey. And essentially we saved in the total of this trip, we paid for our hotel in Napa because the west in there, which is a Marriott, was booked. So we actually paid to stay at the Archer downtown Napa. And we ended up saving, when I sat down and did the math on how much everything would've cost with points, we saved $7,000 on that trip over $7,000.  

Kristin:    Wow.  

Jordan:    Yeah. So that's one trip. That's two weeks. And, and you know, the, the beautiful thing about that, to your point, you spend what, a hundred dollars on your trip to Chicago when you, when you save money on your flights and your hotels and things like that, you feel a little bit more free to like enjoy your dinner, you know?. Or like go take a tour, like splurge a little bit more on those things cuz everything else was free.  

Kristin:    Yeah. Like I treated my friend to brunch, I'm like, it's on me <laugh>.  

KT:    You just become like a big spender when it comes to the day in and day out stuff.  

Kristin: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Cuz then all the other stuff adds up too. Like the tours and, and things. So, um, so you have the Marriott, do you have the, is it the Bonvoy card? Give us a list of like the cards that you currently have. Cuz I have the Delta Reserve card, but I find it interesting that you guys go for the Delta Platinum card. Yeah. And a different Delta or the American Express Platinum and a different Delta card that's maybe a different level.  

Jordan:    I love the American Express Platinum Card because it's like $600 a year, but you get a $200 airline credit, $200 hotel credit, $200 Uber credit. So you make that up right there. 

KT: Oh  Yeah.  

Jordan: Plus you get, like, they have random awards throughout the year. So like right now I have $15 in like digital subscription services. So for like, I think, um, one of the, I forget one of the TV services is included. So like it pays for that. One of the reasons I like that car too is because it has great insurance for rental cars, for travel insurance and things like that. So,  

KT:    So when you go to the rental car place and they're like, Do you want insurance? You're like, Nope, I already have it. So that's cutting costs right there every time you get a rental  car. 

Jordan: Yeah, exactly. And keeping, I mean honestly, insurance is important. I like it.  

Kristin:     And the, the insurance is more expensive than the rental car usually, right?  

Jordan:   Yeah. Right. So you know, just having that alone, like we just rented a car when we were in Pulia, we just did a trip to Pulia Italy and we rented a nice Alpha Rome and he says, Do you want insurance? I'm like, No, I'm good. I got it. So, you know, just like to her point, another example, I have both Marriott credit cards. They have a Chase Bonvoy Boundless and then they also have an American Express, like Bonvoy Brilliant I think it's called. The reason I have both of those is because I think they're like a hundred bucks a year, but with each card you get a free night. So you know, at that point you're, you're getting that right back and when you spend with those cards you get like, I think I get like three points for dining, you know, and a lot. So I use that. I use my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless card for just about everything that like every day purchases, gas, dining, everything and that's really nice cause I'm racking up Marriott points like crazy, especially when you stay at a property you can get like sometimes you get up to 17 points for every dollar you spend at a Marriott property with that card. So, you know, we'll book a free night at the Marriott. We were in Venice and we stayed at the St. Regis was was a free night. Um, we got upgraded cause on platinum. So we got a nice suite at the St. Regis. It's like a $1,500 suite we got for free for the night. All of our dinner and things that we spent at the hotel we put on the card. So you're like get a ton of points back. Um, so it's kinda like a win-win. Um, we do have our Delta cards again, we mentioned we have the Delta Platinum. The reason we don't have the Delta Reserve is because we don't fly domestic a lot. We're often, you know, flying internationally. So like Turkish Airlines or France, whatever the, whatever the case might be. So we don't, we wouldn't use all the benefits of uh, the Delta Reserve card. Like, you know, like  

Kristin:    The sky clubs and the upgrades you wouldn't get cause it's international.  

Jordan:    Exactly. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we just, we go for the platinum just to kind of get that, We get the free check bag most importantly. But also those companion tickets every year.  

KT:   Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and lounge  access 

Jordan: and well lounge access comes with the Amer, um, Platinum Express Platinum. Yeah. So that's the other thing with the Amer American Express Platinum, if you're flying Delta, you get access to that Delta Sky Lounge for that day too.  

Kristin:    Right. And then do you get the priority check in and boarding with that Delta Platinum card?  

Jordan:    We don't. Okay. That's the one thing you don't. Yeah.  

Kristin:    Okay. That's  

Jordan    She's silver. She's silver so she gets it all the time.  

KT:    Mm-hmm. <affirmative> silver medallion.  

Jordan:    Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.  

Kristin:    And uh, do you guys also sign up for the loyalty programs? Like with all the airlines you fly on and with the rental car companies and stuff?  

Jordan:    All the time. So every ti every time, like I, I think I have an account for everything. I have a whole note with all my numbers so cuz because otherwise you're just leaving it out there Right. You're leaving points and stuff out there. 

KT: Yeah. Like it drives me crazy when I see like my mom buying anything with her debit card. I'm like, no, don't do that. 

Kristin: Yeah. I never used mine. I have it in case of an emergency if I need to like take out cash for some reason. Yeah. But yeah,  

Jordan:   We have, we have a great debit card too. We use um, Charles Schwab, Charles Schwab's, um, investor checking account. So you have to open a brokerage account to get the checking account. But with that debit card they, it's free ATMs anywhere in the world. So even if the ATM charges you a fee, they refund you that fee. So that's been great for us, obviously for Travelers. That's another great, um, a great and it's not a credit card but a, a checking account to look into because that's free ATMs anywhere in the world to even refund the fees if they charge you.  

Kristin:   Yeah. That's the only bank I know that does that. And I should really get that one because I just use my transfer wise card, but it still has a fee, um, at the ATM and it's like, might as well get zero fees. I stopped using Bank of America cards cuz they're so expensive. But, um, but yeah, that's a really good one.  

Jordan:   It's nice to have that too cuz you get like, we'll go get cash anywhere and like we don't have to think about it. You don't have to find a specific atm. It's literally any ATM in the world and it's free.  

Kristin:   Yeah. We'll link to that in the show notes. I, I just wrote about that in my book because I had like a whole chapter on, on finances and banking. And so do you do any spending on the uh, American Express Platinum Card or do you just use it for the points and and then you do all the spending on Marriott?  

Jordan:    Uh, we do some spending, We'll, primarily the best way to spend for with that card is if we need to pay for travel. So if you book travel through the American Express portal, so we'll book a flight for example, sometimes you, you can book hotels and even rental cards if you pay for those and book them through American Expressions platform, you get five points per dollar. So, um, spending on that card is primarily any specific promotions that they have. Anytime we're booking travel that we're paying for like flights and things will pay for it on that card or uh, the things that you want like insurance for. So travel or like purchase protection. They also have like some, like they have like enhanced protection for electronics and things like that. So you can put some of those things on there and get those covered as well.  

Kristin: Yeah, I just published a podcast today about insurance and travel insurance, health insurance and electronics insurance and yeah. And that was one of the tips is to, you know, do your certain travel spending on the credit cards that have good travel insurance. Yeah. And then you get extra protection through that. And also with um, purchasing those electronics and things. Yeah. That's something that they don't really publicize that much and people don't really talk about it a lot or even use it, but it's a really good, it's a really good bonus.  

Jordan:    Yeah. Yeah. I think one thing we do too before we spend, or like before we make any like important purchases is like we'll sit down and look through all of our cards and the benefits of all the cards to like really decide, you know, what's the best card to put this on. It takes a little bit of time, but it's, it's worth it. Mm-hmm. 

Kristin:  do you apply for new cards every year or do you just like focus on those cards?  

KT:    Primarily we focus on those cards. If we see a really good like signup bonus or something, we might jump on it, but we've kind of for the last few years I think we've been pretty well  

Jordan:   Last year. You got your platinum? 

KT: Yeah, we both have. 

Jordan: So, and that was a great, when they had a great signup bonus. So it's, to her point, that's the time to get new cards is when there's a, you know, like a historically big sign up bonus. So sometimes they'll be like American Express platinum, it's a hundred thousand points. Like this is the highest it ever is and tho that's always a good time because we've also went to apply for cards and the bonus ends and you never know when they're gonna bring it back. So one thing that's for sure about, about getting new cards is like one of the best things you get from it is that sign up bonus cause it's so valuable sometimes. I mean that a hundred thousand points from American expresses work like $2,000, something like that. 

KT: We, yeah. We've also had times where we just missed it and it's like, well I really need a card so then I settle for maybe 50,000 and you miss out. So time is of the essence when it comes to  that. 

Kristin: Yeah. I'm gonna set up a Google alert for that one cuz I, I've been waiting to get the American Express platinum cuz I just had so many travel credit cards. But I think it's time I've been holding off for a long time and uh, especially going back to Europe and leaving the US and leaving the Delta economy, you know, so 

KT: Yes.  

Jordan:    Yeah. That's the, that's the other thing about the American Express that I will say too is another reason I have that Chase, Marriott that I use it so much is because when you're abroad, American Express can be hard to use So I almost can't use it a lot of times when I am abroad. So it is good to have at least like a, a Visa or MasterCard credit card in your wallet because those are the most widely accepted cards for sure overseas. 

Kristin: Yeah, I definitely, I have all of them. So I have like Visa, MasterCard, American Express, but yeah, you'll definitely see in Europe and places that people, retailers don't wanna pay those American Express processing fees. So it's, it's good to have a backup. And then how do you find those deals? Like when you, when you get those hotel rooms for 70,000 points for example. Cause I was looking around in Miami, I was thinking maybe I'll take a staycation, but it's just the economy here is crazy right now as everyone's moving to Miami. So all the hotel prices were like 130,000 points and things. So do you have any hacks for how you find those good nights? Is it like on a Tuesday or something?  

Jordan: I, you know,  

KT:   I think it's mostly emails. We pay attention to our emails and we sign up for email notifications about any deals. Like if Marriot has one, I'll send it to Jordan, like, Hey, we need to jump on this or do a little trip. Um, and then  

Jordan:    I like to compare. I think I, I don't have a specific day but I do like to compare the, the redemption versus the cost to, to stay and so, you know, a easy way to think about it is like if it's $500 a night that I like, it might not be exactly, but I'm thinking like 50,000 points, right? So you take off like those two zeros to 500. That's kind of like if it's, if the redemption costs more or about the same as to pay, I might actually pay for it. Yeah. So when I was looking at that Rich Carlton for example, it was 70,000 points, which is about $700, but the actual price to pay was like $2,000. So like that was a really great redemption and I just happened to stumble across it cuz it was one of the only properties in Santa, in Santa Barbara. 

KT:    And he is always checking his Marriott app. Always. Yeah. He's just browsing <laugh>.  

Kristin:   Okay.  

KT:    Seeing what the point count is and just, you know, seeing, seeing if there's any opportunity there.  

Jordan:    I guess. I think I found, so one resource that I use and I'll, and I'll share with you, I found a map, somebody made this map of all the Marriott properties by category. Oh. And so that was, that's helpful for me cuz what I'll do is I'll look for a specific level of category because they have, they had a redemption point like rate for every category. Now they're changing that, but it allows you to kind of see what's where. So I might say category six hotels and, and I'll just look at the map and see like where we want to go. And so like I'll just take a look from there. That's, that's been helpful for me.  

Kristin:    Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that to you and sign up for those, um, those emails and just, you know, as a caveat for people to use your credit card, like a debit card, like don't pay interest on the cards but do your normal spending that you would do with cash or on a debit card. Do it on your credit card, but just pretend it's a debit card and  

Jordan:    Uh, that's that do not carry that balance. That's, that's the worst advice. And the thing about American Express Platinum is you can't carry a balance. They make you pay it in full every month. So that's one thing to do.

Kristin: Oh really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I do that anyway. But that's a, that's interesting. I didn't know that. But yeah, you don't wanna pay that interest. And then do none of those have overseas transaction fees?  

Jordan:    None. None of the ones that we use, no. Okay. Not the Marrit cards, not the American Express. No. They're all good to go overseas.  

Kristin:    That's good. Yeah. I'm gonna um, I think the Marriott actually has really nice properties cuz I'm also IHG Platinum. Okay. And I should probably look into their credit card too. So that's like the Intercontinental Holiday Inn and stuff. And also Kimpton. But their redemption's not as good. I mean, once in a while I will find like really good deals. Um, I actually just found one in Montreal, so I went to this conference running remote, this remote work conference in Montreal and I stayed for free, uh, using my points at um like a really nice holiday inn in the, in the center. 

Jordan:    How was Montreal? Cause we're thinking about going there.  

Kristin:    Um, it was, it was an interesting time cuz it was spring, so the weather was like, the weather's crazy there in the spring time cuz it's so cold of course in the winter. And then in the spring, like one day it was sunny and hot, like 80 degrees. And then the next day it was like freezing rain going sideways. Oh. So it was, it was definitely weird. Like I brought summer and winter clothes for four days. <laugh>. Yeah. Um, but it's, it's nice. And if you're a foodie, you know, you guys are foodie so there's definitely a lot of places to eat there. And I don't know why they're so good at making bagels and donuts, but the bagels are amazing. And the donuts too. And I saw that you were eating donuts on your Instagram, so you guys look like you're shape, but you're eating a like pasta carbonara and cafes. How do you find your, your restaurants? Like how do you uncover these amazing places to eat while you're traveling?  

KT:   Yeah, so that's definitely my area, <laugh> and  

Kristin:    Hey there, Kristin here. Did you know that I have a weekly newsletter? You can stay in touch and receive an email from me every Friday by going to travelingwithkristin.com/subscribe. You'll be the first to know about new projects, videos, and opportunities for attending meetups live streams and more. You'll also get a lot of travel and remote work tips, insights, and thoughts that I don't share anywhere else. Sign up today at travelingwithkristin.com/subscribe. You can also find the link in the show notes. And now back to the show.  

KT:    I've really pushed Jordan to get out there and explore and try new things because I'm the type of person that every time I go out to eat, even if it's a repeat restaurant and I know I like a dish, I'm trying something new where Jordan, if he likes, you know, the carbonara there, he's gonna have the carbon every time. Yeah. So we're different in that way, but I've pushed him out of his comfort zone kind of. And for me, uh, we were really bad tourists right when we started this. We were spending all of our time when we're overseas, you know, researching or we take a trip and we're on our phone, our calling, trying to make reservations and one that inspired our business. But two, it allowed us to really prioritize finding good places to eat. So, like I said, I love to go for walks, I love to, um, explore, drive around and when I see somewhere really good, I write it down. And that's kind of how, you know, I started making guides for us. Or whenever he had an off day, I was like, okay, we have these restaurants, we have these sites. Pick which ones you wanna go to and that's what we're doing today. And he kind of took my lead on that. And you know, just exploring your area I think is really important. Um, but a lot of other things are important too, of course, reviews. But we've found that  

Jordan:     You've learned to not trust reviews like I had. 

Kristin: People are way too nice.  

KT:   Yes. Way too nice or way too mean <laugh>.  

Kristin:   Yea it’s a five or a one.

Jordan: Exactly. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. 

KT: Exactly. And people really only write a review when they really love the experience or they really hated the experience. So I think the results are kind of skewed in that way. Um,  

Jordan:    A lot of our favorite places we've gone, for example, like we went to Quadri Restaurant in Venice, you know, for a splurge dinner. And it was like one of our favorite dining experiences, and they have, 

KT: I think it has  3.5 stars or something. 

Jordan: It's amazing. You know, so we, we've grown to like, be skeptical of reviews. We've gone to places that have great reviews and a lot of 'em and have been like very underwhelmed. So it's, It's about knowing how to look and like where to look for Sure. 

KT:    Yeah. A lot of things you have to consider when deciding where to eat. And for us it's really important. Like you said, we are foodies, we care about food, we care about quality, we care about like, vibe and experience. So, you know, you kind of get an energy from a place. And if it has good vibes, then we will probably dine there. 

Jordan: Yeah.  

Kristin:    And, um, how did you come up with this idea to create this app called On Arrival? Tell us a little bit about that, because I really haven't seen anything like it. I mean, there's a lot of travel companies, but it, it almost looks to me sort of like, sort of like Scott's Cheap Flights where they will like find good flights for you and then email them to you. But in, in your case, you're doing it to uncover those hidden gems in different destinations, like things to do in restaurants and then sending them to people to kind of shift that burden away from reading TripAdvisor reviews for two months in a row.  

Jordan:   <laugh>. Yeah. I was actually curious yesterday and I got on Google Trends and that allows you to like, look at keywords and the top, like, I searched what to do in which is what most people do when they're going somewhere there, what to do in, you know, and the top result was Texas, so what to do in Texas. So I typed it into Google, you know, how many results I got, 340 billion results. 

Kristin:    Oh my  God.  

Jordan:    And so I went to TripAdvisor and I thought, okay, maybe I'll get something better from there. 10,000 plus options of things to do. So it's, it's such a necessity at this point because there's so much information out there.  

KT:    It's overwhelming how much information is on the Internet. 

Jordan: And I think you mentioned to us that, that you, you know, you track how much time you spend planning travel and it's, you know, for you, you travel a lot, so it's a lot of time. But even for the average traveler, they spend anywhere from five to 10 hours planning even a short trip. And with On Arrival, when you fill out our travel questionnaire, our customers spend less than 10 minutes on our form and get great recommendations for wherever they're going  

Kristin:    And personalized. Like, that's what is kind of mind boggling to me. Like when you said, when we first got on the call, like, Oh, we're gonna make a, a list of recommendations for you for Istanbul, which I've never been to. I don't have time to research it right now. And I mean, I have a lot of friends who've been there, so I was like asking them. But then I, I've already like messaged seven or eight Turkish friends that live in Miami. No one sent me any names of places and they lived there. So then you're like asking people and then they don't get back to you. And then, Yeah. It's just kinda,  

Jordan:   It's  stressful. 

Kristin: So I was like excited because you know, you look at TripAdvisor and you get the, you know, the top like most popular places , but then usually you start to find those hidden gems by the end of your trip and you're like, Oh, I wish I knew about this at the beginning. So that's just a really cool concept that you have real human beings that are looking at what you like to do and your personality and your goals and your budget and then being like, Hey, try these, these places out.  

Jordan:    It's this human being.  

KT:    Yeah. So you know, you have your accommodations, you have your flight, and then you're like, okay, now what do I do when I get there? And after you fill out the questionnaire, we collect information in that questionnaire, like your preferences for food types, your vibe, preferences. Um, say you wanna hipster vibe or you want speakeasies. And then I think something in the questionnaire that is key and people don't realize when they're just looking on the internet like, Oh, I have, you know, this real and this TikTok of things to do and Istanbul for example,  

Jordan:   Or recommendations from friends  

KT:   Or recommendations for friends. But difference is, and one thing that I think is so key for our product is we take where you're staying, so where your accommodations are and you tell us, Hey, I'm willing to travel 10 minutes by foot and I'm willing to travel 30 minutes by car. And we will find recommendations, the best of the best within that vicinity. And that's something like, you're going to Paris for example, Paris is big,

Jordan: huge 

KT: <laugh>. You're not going to be able to just go to, you know, that tik tok video recommendation because maybe that's like  

Kristin:  Two hours away. 

KT: Yeah. 

Kristin: How many Aron distance are there? Like 18 or something? Yeah, 

Jordan: yeah 

KT: yeah. Seriously. So I've done so many Paris guides, uh, on a rabbit guide. 

Jordan: They're all different 

KT: and they're all completely different. Like, we have very few repeat recommendations because people are different. People travel different. So what you find on the internet,  

Jordan:  or even from your friends, right? Like, do we like the same things? 

KT: Yeah. Or do you wanna replicate your friends' trip? Maybe you wanna find something new, You wanna find something that's more you,  

Jordan:  And then the quality to your point, like that's the other thing. So we're saving people time and like the frustration and the stress, but like also the quality. Like you don't want to leave your vacation and be like, like, damn, like I didn't have the best experience. And so like, like our customers, like they tell us every time, like, we went to 90% of your recommendations. We loved it. Like this was the best. I mean, it's, it makes such a difference and it takes so much stress from our customers. 

Kristin:   Yeah. Like the first night I got into Chicago, I, well, I had a really early flight and I woke up even earlier cuz I went to see a friend DJ in the morning. So I was like five or 6:00 AM watching their DJ set. And then I went to the airport and then I went to Chicago and then I had podcast interviews as like a long day of work. And then I was so hungry and I'm like, shoot, I haven't even, you know, looked up restaurants to go to and I wanted to sit outside cuz it's summer in Chicago. It's magical, like a beautiful day. And I had the most underwhelming meal that, you know, cost $50 and I was sitting outside, but it was like not a good section. And then as soon as I finished, I like turned the corner and I found the cutest restaurant that had a better view of the river. And then I walked like five minutes and I found this whole entire street full of like amazing restaurants. And I was like, man, cuz I was only there for three days and I'm like, I just ruined a whole dinner. Then I was too full to eat anything else and I spent half my budget for the week, you know, My hundred dollars. And then, um, yeah. And I was just so sad. I, I texted my mom, I'm like, man, I, you know, probably consumed a lot of calories on this really mediocre food and like didn't get the best experience. And then I was like, where, when am I gonna have time to eat another dinner here? Cuz I had the other events going on. And so I only got to have like one more good meal before I went back to the airport on Sunday. So yeah, it's, it's a, it's a short window 

Jordan: no more of those experiences. That's the goal of On Arrival is no more experiences like that.  

KT:    Yeah.  

Kristin:   So people go to, um, they just go to on arrival.com and fill out this questionnaire and then what is your, what is your pricing like, and then what destinations do you cover?  

KT:    Yeah, so right now we really cover anywhere. So wherever you're going, we will make a guide for you and it is really affordable. Uh, we can do 10 recommendations and those are personalized to you for $20 or 20 recommendations for $40 depending on the length of your trip. Um, and we also want to offer everyone a code.  

Jordan:    Yeah. So we're gonna use the Code Badass, right?  

Kristin:    <laugh>. All right.  

Jordan:   Code Badass get you 25% off your first order. So for, you know, for your standard guide with 10 Rex, that's $5 off for your, um, for your deluxe guide with 20 Rexs, that's $10 off. So we wanted to offer that to all the Badass digital Nomas out there. So Code Badass for, for your first purchase.

Kristin: Amazing, Thank you so much. And then the turnaround time is like one day, is that right?  

KT:    Yeah, so, um, for our smaller 10 rec, uh, package, it's one to two business days and for the larger package it's three to five business days.  

Jordan:    So Yeah. And then to that point, we also wanna recommend that people plan ahead. So if you know where you're going already, you should like, you should start now because it'll give us time to prep your guide. It'll give you time to make those recommendations. And book tours, like dinners and tours are really hot commodities right now  

KT:    Post covid travel. Yeah. Like you have to book everything early.  

Jordan:    Yeah. We've been making guides. I mean you've made how many guides that you've had to change.  Yeah, because there's no reservation. So we won't give you any, uh, recommendations that are already booked up. Uh, we check that for you, but a lot of times I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is a place that this person is looking for. It's perfect, but they're completely booked up because they gave me a week. So definitely plan ahead of time and call for those reservations early. Like an example of that is we were in Venice and we didn't make reservations on a weekend and we went into every restaurant in the like local area that we were walking and they were books. We ended up going home. And this is really like a reality that you have to plan early in these like post covid times.  

Kristin:    Yeah. Especially in really popular destinations. Like yeah, like Venice and then it can be any location. Like even if it's not on the list, you guys can figure it out.  

Jordan:    Yeah. We have it other fields. So you can put whatever city you know, you're going to. And we've done a lot of others. And what's really nice too is when you get the guide, it's a digital guide, it's interactive, you'll log into our website and you'll be able to see photos, reviews, descriptions. We even put personal notes on a lot of our recommendations, we include links for reservations, for tickets, social media.  

KT:    So it's like a one stop shop, which is really perfect. So you're going on your trip, you go to onarrival.com, you log in, say you're on your phone or you're on your computer and all your recommendations are right there. You can go right to Google Maps from there. You see the hours there, you buy the tickets there. It's really like everything in one place, which is nice.  

Kristin:    That's cool. And then I also love that you guys are, you know, kind of living, not kind of, you are, you're living this experience, this customized, curated, individualized life experience where you have, like Jordan is playing basketball, you're living in different countries, you're working remotely for Alpha Romeo, you started your own app together. You manage rental properties that you have income streams from there. So you have like all these different income streams and all of them are location independent basically, besides Jordan has to be there for the games, but like Right. That's really cool. Can you just give us a little bit of insight into how you built that app? Because I saw that you were, that you won a competition to go to a, an incubator and I think that would help a lot of people that are, that have business ideas and that are looking to make a startup  

KT:    Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. So I think this is really perfect for the digital nomads out there. We had this idea, you know, like I said, we were really bad tourists and we got really good at picking places. Like whenever we're with our friends, we're like, we got this. Like, we know exactly where to go. Um, we started building out like itineraries for our friends and family and we're like, we really wanna make a business out of this. Like, I'm really passionate about travel, I'm gonna put that marketing degree to work <laugh>. And I also like wanna travel with Jordan, right. I don't wanna do the back and forth as much. So we joined a virtual incubator and we ended up winning. So why don't you talk about like what it entailed the incubator? Yeah.  

Kristin:    So I didn't even know there were virtual incubators, but that makes sense.  

Jordan:    There's a lot of resources out there. Like if you look, if you start to really look and know where to look, there are a lot of programs that are designed to help you explore your idea. So if you're like one of those entrepreneurs out there or one of those Nomads, like I have this great idea for this business and it's like the next big thing, there are places that will help you. And so I, I remember just doing a search and I actually searched for a local place. Um, it was a place in Detroit, but they had all virtual program that was for ideas –idea stage. So it was basically come to us with your idea and we'll help you see if, if you can make it,  

KT:   It's viable or not. Yeah.  

Jordan:    Yeah. It was great because, um, it was, you know, we had class once a week. We had to meet with our advisor once a week. And the whole point of the program though was to interview people. So the whole concept for On Arrival was born from interviewing other travelers. We had to conduct a hundred interviews of people and ask them their biggest challenge with travel and this was what we came up with. Cause this was the problem that everybody said that they had. And so, I mean, it's been remarkably helpful. We've participated in two follow up programs, you know, we took first place in that initial program and the showcase, and we've participated in two follow us where they continue to help us, you know, refine our MVP and our offering. And now they're helping us kind of explore how to find like customers and things like that. So it's been very helpful.  

KT:    And we've done this program from everywhere. Like it was virtual, but you know, like we mentioned earlier, we were doing classes at 11:00 PM from Venice. We did it during our California road trip, uh,  

Jordan:   Really at wine tasting.  

KT:    We Did it, we were really, it was funny because we didn't put our camera on, but we were at Opus One, which is like a super bougie winery, and we were like, you know, oh, in class drinking wine. So we've done it from all over the place and, and you can make that happen as well. So,  

Kristin:   Cool. So just to search online for virtual incubators. And then did they give you some seed money?  

Jordan:   So we won money, uh, for taking first prize. I think we got 15, $1,500 check. But we also at, by participating in their follow up programs, we were kind of eligible for, they have like a fund. Um, so it's kind of like local, it's, I guess there's some like grant money. So they haven't taken any equity in our company, but they have given us small, like money for things like the development of our website and our like, work on our branding or our PR and things like that. So, it's been really helpful.  

KT:    And I think some are really good to start is, you know, do a Google search in the major city and the state you live in. I'm sure they have potentially they have an incubator that you can join. Yeah. And that's really what we did. We were like, Detroit Incubator and this is how we got started. Yeah.  

Kristin:   Yeah. I just saw this video recently. I think I may have mentioned it on the podcast. Sorry guys if I'm repeating, or maybe it wasn't to friends, but it was a, a video by the founder of Patreon named Jack Conti, and he was talking about how life is a funnel. So you just kind of try, you know, you, you prospect when you have an idea or something that you wanna do, something you wanna manifest and you just need to contact multiple people. And then something comes out of it. And he uses the example of trying to make a doctor's appointment. Like if you contact one doctor's office and ask if they're taking new patients and it's like a six month wait for an appointment or something, then you're just gonna end up waiting. But if you contact six doctor's offices, then maybe one has an appointment available tomorrow. And it's like that with, you know, trying to get customers remembers a friend who he does, he replaces roofs in Miami, so he just literally knocks on doors for four hours a day. And he's been doing that since he was a teenager. And that's just how he binds customers. And I think it's just putting that, that effort out there and putting that energy into your ideas that somehow, you know, you might, I think, um, Julia Cameron, the writer, she says, You shake an apple tree and oranges fall down <laugh>. But it's something like that. Like, you, you look for a solution to your problem and you find one, and it's not necessarily the exact first place that you looked, but  

KT:    Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I think something really interesting to that point is our idea originally is completely different than what we ended up doing. And it was through those customer discovery interviews that we did. So if we would give any advice, I know it would be to, you know, find the problem, find how you can solve it with your products,  

Kristin:    Right? Yeah. Don't spend a year building something that nobody needs or no one wants or, or no one will pay for.  

Jordan:   Yes. Yeah. And start and just, and start. So like, to start, like, we have an app and everything now, right? But our first, our very first sale, our very first iteration of our product was a, a Word document with no formatting, no branding, just literal a  

KT:    PDFs with links.  

Jordan:    So, and we sold that and somebody paid us to do that. Right. So, you know, it doesn't have to be elaborate, um, but like you said, take action. I think that's the most important thing. You take action, you start, you know, trying to find ways and, and things will happen, you know, and it won't necessarily be what you expect, but we've seen that happen in our life so many times too.  

Kristin:    Yeah. I, I've, I've definitely experienced that as well. So I think it's, um, it's a good lesson to leave people with. And I wanted to do just a quick, like a couple questions lightning round. What is your favorite airline and why?  

KT:    Delta Domestic and Turkish International. Uh, a lot of people, you know, are nervous, but it comes to Turkish Airlines, but don't be, I mean, it's such a great airline. The food is great. And then also like, they have like fresh flowers, like in the plane. 

Kristin: In the airplane?

KT:  Yeah. Which is like a nice touch. 

Jordan: Great  Service. Yeah. 

Kristin: Wow. 

Jordan: My answer's the same for sure.  

Kristin:    Yay. I'm flying direct, uh, from Miami to Istanbul on Turkish Airlines. 

KT: Oh, Great flight.   

Jordan:    You'll love it.  

KT:   You'll love it.  

Kristin:    It's not business class, but it'll still be good.  

KT:    Yeah. No, we only fly, we only flew economy. So you'll  love it. 

Jordan: It's nice. It's nice. Trust. Trust us. It's great.  

Kristin:    Yay. That'll be my first time. So that's exciting. What is a site or two that you think that people should see in Venice?  

KT:    Ooh, that's a really hard one. Um, Oh, that's so hard. I can't  

Jordan:    Just, Oh, you gotta, well first of all, you have to see like Piata San Marco, right? the main square, you know, the, uh, and especially the basilica. And to take a tour, to take a tour of the Basilica because it's, you know, we've seen a lot of churches, but it's very unique because of, it has Venice at the time of, its like, Empire was this big, they were trading with people all over the world. So the influences in that church are from all over the world, which makes it really, really a unique, um, kind of church to see. So we love the tour. We took.

KT:    I would say St. Mark's Square for sure. And then also the two bridges that I would really recommend, which I can't really choose between the two, but you should definitely see the Rialto Bridge as well as, uh, the Academia Bridge. Both are great views of the Grand Canal.  

Kristin: Okay. I haven't been there since high school, so maybe it's time for a trip back there. 

KT: Yes. 

Kristin: And um, did you do, like, do you do the gondola, right? Like everyone does that, You gotta do it. 

Jordan: Yeah. You have to do it once it's, it's like 80 euros, just  

KT:    For 30 minutes.  

Jordan:   Get a gelato and take it with you and just enjoy it.  

KT:    I think I've taken the most gondola rides in the city, probably. I've taken six <laugh>  

Jordan:    <laugh> and don't do it on the Grand Canal. Find a, like a side canal to do it. Cause the Grand Canal can get crazy. You wanna be like in the little side canals. That's where it's really magical.  

Kristin:    Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. So contact Jordan and KT you guys, so you can get the low down on like, get off the main highway of the canal and get onto the side streets. 

Jordan:   We have the perfect place too. So  

Kristin:   <laugh>. Okay. What's your favorite gelato flavors?

Jordan:   Stracciatella  

KT:    Pistachio. Stracciatella  are both top.  

Jordan:    Few of the latte is also, is also,  

KT:    Uh, it's just like really milky, really creamy, 

Jordan: Yeah.

KT: Flour of milk. 

Jordan: Yeah.  

KT:    It's, it's nice.  

Kristin:   Oh yeah, That is, that's a beautiful translation actually. I like to go for a chocolate with a, with a fruit, Like a sorbet, like a lemon. 

Jordan: That's good. 

Kristin: Um, have you been to Sicily?  

Jordan:    No. Well I have, but like for a game, so that didn't really count.  

Kristin:    I heard they have gelato for breakfast, Like they have coffee with either, they have a Granita, It's either like an Almond Granita or maybe Lemon Granita. I can't remember the flavors now, but, um, I saw that on Chef's Table, so we should probably hang out cuz we're like, I'm also a foodie. you should watch that episode cuz it's, it's so good. It makes me wanna just go to Sicily right now. Um, but I can get on board with, with uh, Gelato for breakfast.

Jordan:  I definitely could.  

Kristin: What are, what is a small town that you can recommend in France, Italy, and Slovenia. So I'm hitting you with a triple header, lightning round question.  

Jordan:   Okay. So France, a really cool city that we lived in was Nantes,  N A N T E S, Great city, um, on the Atlantic Coast was just a really nice city.

KT:  Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,    I'd agree a hundred percent. Yeah. Great wines.  

Jordan:  What about Italy? Oh, I know Italy. Can I go, can I do Italy too?  

KT:    Sure.  

Jordan:    Verona  

KT:    <laugh>. Yes. Verona's great.  

Jordan:    That was like, I was blown away. I loved Verona. and you don't hear about it a lot, but it's close to Venice. It's like, what is it our,  

KT:    Yeah. If you're going to Venice you could easily go to Verona. Treviso.

Jordan:    Treviso was also beautiful. Yeah. 

KT:    Yeah. I would suggest those three if you're in, if you're visiting Venice. Just I like three, three little cities is always a great, a great trip. And then  

Jordan:    Slovenia. 

KT: Yeah. Lake  Blood. 

Jordan: Yeah. Blood. You gotta go to Lake Blood. Blood Castle for sure.  

Kristin:    That's the island with the castle on it 

KT:    It in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool.  

Kristin:    That looks beautiful. And then I heard the cost of living is quite reasonable there. 

KT: Yeah. Yeah

Jordan:  You could also go to the seaside, go to Porter Roche or Piran, which Piran was actually an old, like Italian village.. But, um, it feels a lot like Venice on, in that little village. It was beautiful.  

Kristin: cute and yeah, they have that little coastline there. And did you find that many people spoke English?  

KT:    Oh, everyone. And I remember like in Liviana, I would go into,  

Jordan:    Yeah. Especially In Liviana. 

KT: Yeah. I would take fitness classes and I remember taking a yoga class and the instructor was speaking Slovenian and then I, I, she said something to me and I was like, Sorry, I, I only speak English. And she said to the whole class, she's like, Oh, hey guys, do you care if I speak English this whole class? And everyone was like, No, that's fine. <laugh>.  So casual.

Kristin:    Perfect. And then what is your best tip for learning a language?  

Jordan:    Well, we have a general to <laugh>. Yeah. Learning language can be hard, especially like, Slovenian is a sloppy language. It's real hard. 

KT: Yeah. We always say, wherever you're going, you should know like five, five words. Hello, goodbye please. Thank you. And excuse me.  

Jordan: Yeah. At the very least, just to be polite, like you can get by with English, but at least learning how to be polite, it goes a long way.  

KT:    Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, even in Russia, we learned all five of those because we were like, you know, it's, it's good. It's like you have a little toolbox. And then from there, like Jordan learned, uh, French when he was in high school, so he just likes to show off. He's really good at, at languages that he was speaking Italian when we were in Italy. Um, took Italian lessons online through a website called Preply. Uh, you get to pick your instructor and then I would meet with her like once or twice a week. I need to get back to that. Since I'm home, I'm not doing it. But, um, yeah, language doesn't come as easy to me, but to Jordan, he's just a pro.  

Kristin:    And then I guess living there, you get to practice it.  

KT:    Yes. That would be a really good tip is Jordan. It's easier for him because he is teammates with a bunch of Italians or a bunch of Russians or whatever. For me, that's why I always try to make friends wherever I go because then I'm able to practice the language a little bit with them. And a lot of times people also wanna learn English or speak or practice their English. So it goes both ways.  

Kristin:    And how do you guys usually connect with other locals or foreigners when you're traveling?  

KT:    Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for me it's coffee shops, cafes. I love to get out of the house, so I'll take my computer and set up shops somewhere, which is really interesting in Italy because they don't really do that, like coffee shop, so 

Jordan: No, no. Yeah. 

KT: It's like they look at you like you're crazy because coffee shops are meant for drinking coffee and not for working, you know, Uh, that was kind of difficult. But I like to go to, you know, coffee shops or get involved with like, um, a dance class or a yoga class, something like that to meet people.  

Jordan:   I'm, I, I, I'm at an advantage. I I just meet people kind of through work,  

Kristin: through work. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you get to meet other couples too that way in their parties. 

KT:   A lot of times he has like four Americans on the team, so you can be friends with the Americans and then the rest of the team is, for example, like Italians. So you, you get friends from all over the world.  

Kristin:   Amazing. Well thank you guys so much for coming on the show today. Sharing all of your travel and credit card tips. Where can people follow you online and learn more?  

KT:   Yes. So you can visit us at onarrival.com. You can follow us at On Arrival, travel on all social medias. We have Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter.  

Jordan:   That's it. Code Badass. Remember for your, for your first purchase?  

Kristin:    25% off. I'm gonna be my first client.  

KT:   I love it. Perfect.  

Kristin:    Yeah. All right guys. Well, thanks for coming on today and thank you everyone for listening. Use Code Badass onarrival.com and get a personally and curated list of travel recommendations for your next trip. And see you next week. Bye  

KT & Jordan:    Bye.  

Kristin:    I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If so, why not share the Love? You can support the show by leaving us a five star review wherever you listen, or by sharing today's episode on social media or with a friend, co-worker, or family member, you can also make a contribution to the show at www.badassdigitalnomads.com/support. There you'll find links to donate on PayPal, Buy me a coffee, or by joining my Patreon, where for $5 per month, you get to preview my videos before they're published on YouTube and also participate in monthly private Zoom hangouts with myself and other patrons. That's at badassdigital nomads.com/support. Thank you so much and see you again next week.